Prayer & Church: Two Doors to Deeper Spiritual Connection

Prayer & Church: Two Doors to Deeper Spiritual Connection

Episode Summary

Most couples agree that prayer and church matter. Far fewer actually do them together — and the gap quietly becomes distance.

For a lot of couples, prayer feels like a performance one spouse is better at, so the other sits back. And church carries old wounds that make it easier to stay "spiritual, not religious." But walked through together, these two areas are some of the most powerful ways to build intimacy and unity in a marriage.

In this episode, Chad and Sarah-Gayle pick up where they left off on spiritual connection and go deeper into prayer and church — the landmines, the past hurts, and the simple next steps that move a couple toward each other and toward God.

What We Cover

7-Day Couples Prayer Guide

Full Blog Post: How to Pray as a Couple

Prayer is relationship, not performance. There's no right or wrong way to pray — we're building a relationship with our Heavenly Father. Psalm 116:1-2 paints a picture of a God who bends down to hear every word. It's not about perfection; it's about rhythm.

Start small and attach it to what you already do. Pray on a walk, pray when you wake up, pray over your meals. A mealtime prayer you already say can become the doorway to praying together out loud.

Praying out loud is intimate. When your spouse prays out loud, you hear what's on their heart — what's heavy, what they're excited about, things "how was your day" never surfaces. And when you don't know what to pray, pray Scripture. God's Word does not return void.

Prayer softens hearts. Husbands and wives are different people. Few things help a couple walk in unity like two soft hearts before God.

Aim for the floor, not perfection. Research shared in the episode points to a tipping point: at three days a week there's little transformation, but at four, life starts to change. Shoot for seven, make four your floor, and when you miss a day, just keep going.

Church is formative, not perfect. The most common reason couples step away is church hurt. But the church was never meant to be perfect — it's meant to shape us. Community shows up in our hardest seasons, and "those who are planted in the house of the Lord flourish" (Psalm 92:13). Apart from community, our faith tends to drift.

"Spiritual, not religious" deserves an honest look. Many couples say they have a personal relationship with God but aren't reading His Word or talking to Him — an honest invitation to grow in the areas we say matter most.

Your Next Step

Two action items this week. First, commit to praying together in a regular rhythm — use the free 7-day prayer guide in the show notes as your tool. Second, take one baby step toward a local church: visit one this Sunday, commit to consistency, or join a team and serve. These areas produce freedom and connection. 

We're cheering you on.

Episode Themes

• Prayer as relationship vs. performance
• Building a daily prayer rhythm as a couple
• The intimacy of praying out loud and praying Scripture
• Perseverance over perfection (the 4-out-of-7 tipping point)
• Church hurt and the expectation of perfection
• Community, belonging, and being known
• "Spiritual, not religious" examined honestly
• Scripture: Psalm 116:1-2; Psalm 92:13; Hebrews 10:25

Reflection Questions

For Personal Reflection

1. When it comes to praying out loud, am I leaning in or sitting back — and why?
2. Have I been treating prayer as a performance instead of a relationship with God?
3. Is there a past church hurt I'm still letting shape my expectations today?
4. Am I genuinely growing in the spiritual areas I say are important to me?

For Conversation with Your Spouse

1. What's one small, existing rhythm we could attach prayer to this week?
2. When you pray out loud, what do you want me to understand about your heart?
3. What would "taking a baby step" toward a church home look like for us right now?
4. What's one way being part of a community has blessed our marriage — and one way we could let it?

Transcript

Sarah-Gayle (00:00)
In our last episode, we talked about spiritual connection, and we ended saying that we were gonna dive deeper into prayer and church. And so that's exactly what we're gonna do today. And we are super excited because many of our couples have expressed how important these areas are, but there's a lot of unknown when it comes to these areas, and so we're going to discuss them.

Chad (00:19)
And so what I'm excited about is these are two areas that create opportunities to connect on a deeper level with our spouse. But they don't come without some potential landmines or some past hurts. what we see is when couples can walk through this together, it actually builds intimacy and connection. And so that's what we want to talk about today. And so the question I have for you, Sarah Gail, is both in our own marriage and when we're working with marriages.

Why would you say or or maybe what is something as it relates to prayer that couples could do that would get them moving towards each other?

Sarah-Gayle (00:56)
I think it's just praying, just starting. I think there's this mystery sometimes. And one spouse might say, Yeah, you know, I just pray by myself because I don't really know how to pray. My spouse is a better prayer than I am. And stereotypically, oftentimes, this is men. You know, men are saying, you know, my wife prays better than I do, so let me just kind of sit back. Whereas if you know how to talk.

You know how to pray.

Chad (01:21)
Yeah. I think a lot of times couples can have this almost like prayer becomes like a performance. Yeah. Like there's a right or a wrong way to do it. But the reality is our encouragement is think of prayer as building a relationship. And so predominantly we're praying and we're building our relationship with our Heavenly Father. I share this verse often and I encourage couples to to look it up. It comes out of Psalm one sixteen and it's verse one and two. And I d I don't know it.

Memorized, but it paints this picture that God cares about the prayers of his sons and his daughters so much that scripture paints a picture that he like kneels down to make sure that he hears every word. And so as you're going to build this regular rhythm with your spouse, it's not about perfection, it's about relationship. And God deeply cares to hear from you. So it's not performance, it's just building that rhythm.

What what are some things that you see that help couples build that rhythm? Like just on a super practical level?

Sarah-Gayle (02:21)
I think starting small, and I did want to comment that is your verse. It's like God bends down. And I just love that when you say that. He shows the heart of God and that he cares. He wants his sons and daughters to talk to him. he's listening. And so I think starting small, you could pray on a walk together, you could pray by yourself, you could pray just right when you wake up, pray over your meals. I think we're all good at praying over our meals, but that's a big deal. And so just starting small.

Chad (02:47)
there are some couples that communicate just praying out loud, and we're gonna talk about that in a moment, that they don't do it. And so a meal could actually be a starting point for a couple. Yeah. I think we can build rhythm or consistency when we attach it to something that maybe we already do. And so that's where prayers can be helpful. Now, if you've been praying over prayers and you know, meal prayers can become

And this will sound bad, but almost afterthoughts, like we can just kind of go through the motion. Then I want to challenge and encourage you to find a new dedicated space. That could be a prayer walk, that could be a prayer to start your morning, or that could be a prayer to end your evening together.

Sarah-Gayle (03:28)
praying out loud is powerful. we're made in the image of God. God spoke the world into existence. And so as we speak things out, especially according to God's word, when we're praying scripture, the Bible says that God's word does not return void. And so we're speaking it out, we're operating how God would operate.

And that is going to accomplish what it is set to accomplish. And so it's very powerful. And then in addition, when we pray out loud, our spouse can hear what's on our heart. It's one of the most intimate things we can do because when your spouse is praying out loud, you recognize, wow, this matters to them. This is what is is maybe heavy on their heart or this is what they're excited about. And a lot of times when we do that, I learn new things about you as far as like, I didn't even realize he was thinking about this or concerned about that.

Chad (04:14)
Yeah, because it's this element right where we're praying and we're inviting God into the situation. And sometimes it's like we put aside like all the other things. And so now we get this access to each other in a way that how is your day may not bring it up. Right. what hits the forefront of my mind in terms of how was my day might be different than I'm inviting God into my day or over my day or whatever that is. I think the other powerful thing about scripture.

Is a lot of times couples say, Well, we don't know what to pray. Yeah. It's like, well, what are you praying over? Look up a Bible verse. What does the Bible say about health? What does the Bible say about parenting? What does the Bible say? And just pray the verse, right? Read the verse. I think one of the benefits of praying out loud is oftentimes it softens our hearts.

Towards each other. Yeah. And when working with marriages, the consistency in which a husband and a wife are very different people is kind of the standard, right? You always joke that when when a couple is in agreement, that's almost more of a surprise than viewing something differently. And so, what more powerful thing to help a couple walk in unity and alignment in the midst of their differences than a soft heart? And so that's one of the benefits of prayer.

Inside the episode notes, we are gonna have a prayer guide. It's just a seven-day, one topic a week as a guide. There's a scripture, there's kind of a prompt or a topic, and it can be that simple. It's just a little daily rhythm of building prayer into your relationship. What would you say for couples, babe, that maybe struggle with perfection? Because I think sometimes we can try and go from zero, like we don't pray together at all, to now maybe we prayed three days, but we missed two days.

Like what would you say to that couple that's wrestling with that dynamic while trying to build a rhythm?

Sarah-Gayle (06:04)
Yeah, to just keep going.

You know, we're we're not gonna be perfect, and it's understanding that the goal is not perfection. We have one who is perfect, and that is God. And we just want to continue to persevere through and recognize, okay, well, what are we wanting? We're wanting to pray. We're wanting to pray more ourselves, we're wanting to pray more together. And so we're gonna do it some days, some days we're not, but then we're gonna get back up, we're gonna try again and again, and not putting that standard or that expectation on ourselves of perfection because that does take the joy out of it. then

And even then it becomes more of a checklist where it's like, did I do this? Let me make sure I did it. Rather than I get to do this. And how can I create creative ways

To create a rhythm to make sure that happens. Yeah.

Chad (06:48)
It reminds me of this message that executive director at our church talked about. He talked about that four to seven days. Like when people start doing something more often than not, it's actually the tipping point for momentum. Yeah. And so there's kind of this study around prayer or reading scripture or doing different things. If it was three out of seven days or less, there wasn't much transformation. But the second you hit four out of seven days, your life started to transform.

And so maybe make that the floor or the goal, right? Like, yeah, maybe we're shooting for seven out of seven praying together as a couple. Yeah. But if we're hitting four, like we are stacking meaningful transformation and continuing to build.

Sarah-Gayle (07:29)
And one thing I wanna add

It's and I don't think I emphasize this, but it's praying whatever is on your heart. You know, inviting God into your day-to-day, pray about your sex life, right? Pray about your children, whatever it is that's on your heart, God wants to hear. And what prayer does is it helps us to see the bigness and the power of God, and it helps oftentimes the thing we're praying about come into perspective because it's not our prayers that are the significant, powerful thing, it's who we're praying to. And this is what

Why your verse I love, he bends down, it's like, Yes, my child, I wanna hear from you, whatever it is. There's nothing too big, there's nothing too small. Our job is just to pray.

Chad (08:08)
I want to shift to church. Okay. we work with so many marriages that identify as Christians, but have separated themselves from any type of local church. I guess my first question for you is maybe what are some of the common reasons that we hear from couples as to why they're Christians, but maybe not as part of a local church?

Sarah-Gayle (08:30)
Yeah, I think one of the most common could be church hurt, like past experiences. maybe trust was broken with a church. And I know for us, we grew up in church, not our childhood, but as far as our marriage. We've been going to church, we've been on staff at church, and what we come to realize is church is made of people. Yep. that's a hard thing for many of us because

We're looking at our leaders like they are going to operate in such perfection, even though they have families, they have things that they struggle with, they're going to God just how we're going to God. So some of that again is our expectation. What are we expecting?

Chad (09:05)
Yeah, I think that this idea of the church is not meant to be perfect. Yeah. It's meant to be formative. Yeah. Right. It's meant to shape us and help us become more and more like Jesus. And the interesting part is some of those elements of disappointment, like the church hurt, are actually the opportunities as individuals to grow. Yeah. Right. When we are disappointed, when we are discouraged, when we are hurt or offended, right? Like these are the things that just happen.

When people are interacting, because we're not perfect. So I don't know, every church I show up to, immediately that church can't be perfect because I showed up to it. Exactly. Right. And so kind of that element. But I even think about some of this formative. You know, you and I, we started going to a church in LA that we kind of grew up in as as young adults, dating, engaged, our early years of marriage and parents. And we learned a lot of our gifts and talents. Yeah.

through serving in the local church. Right? Like I think for me, one of my favorite things now is to teach. And I never, I don't know if I would have ever discovered that. Yeah. Right? We were serving in the youth ministry and I remember just thinking like I'll do anything, but I didn't like the sound of my own voice. And so back in the day, when phones were like voicemails and you'd show up and you'd hit play and you could hear your like I would delete those. Yeah. And so it was a similar dynamic of being on a microphone.

Yeah. Like I didn't like hearing my voice come through a speaker. It was weird for me. But I remember by serving and just this heart of surrender, one time whoever's gonna host wasn't there. And I was invited to host. And without that, just surrender to all right, God, I want to use my gifts and talents to honor you. And then this opportunity in the local church, I may not have had that formative experience to even discover gift and talents. Yeah.

Right. And we also had other challenges, but that helped shape us. for you and I, the reward of being part of a local community has so far outweighed the hurts or the challenges. And can we be honest? Like I've been offended in a Trader Joe's and at a movie theater and while driving my car. Like there's all these other places. Yeah, it g yeah, going to a restaurant, having a you know, a a rude waiter or waitress, right? It's like

Sarah-Gayle (11:12)
Bad meal.

Chad (11:19)
And so some of that dynamic, but I I don't know for you, when you think about the power of a marriage being a part of a local church, what are some of the things that come to mind for you?

Sarah-Gayle (11:29)
Gosh, this could be a couple podcasts, for our marriage, and again, this is not about perfection because we've experienced a lot of imperfect moments. But when we look at okay, well, what is the good that has come? we've had community in the midst of losses, you know, people dying and just hard times, community showing up. I remember

We were moving. starting over. And my son's birthday came up. And we had an amazing community that basically paid for the whole party. Because with moving, there's a lot of expenses. And my son had the best party he's maybe ever had, I guess, with with the exception of his graduation, which just happened. But I remember this is a party that went down in history. It was epic. And it was one that came at one of the hardest times of our lives where we were transitioning.

There was a lot of unknown and the community that really came from church just came up huge. I think that is the opportunity because when you position yourself to be known, yeah, then people know you and they know what's going on and they help in any way they can. It's not always all extravagant, but a lot of times it's just presence. People just showing up at your door and just being. that is life-changing So for us, the local church has really been a place where our

family has flourished. it says in the Bible, those who are planted in the house flourish. And we'll put these scripture notes in in the show notes as well. I could go on and on about the significance of us, our family and and how the church has been such a huge blessing

Chad (12:56)
Well, and and I think when we are not part of a community, the ability or the likelihood that we drift in our faith is so much higher. Because like for me, if we travel or for some reason we miss a Sunday, I lose context of even what day of the week it might be. Right. And so if we're not part of a local community, like if I can push back or maybe challenge you, I am willing to bet.

Sarah-Gayle (13:04)
Yeah, that kind of

Chad (13:20)
The likelihood that you are receiving and growing in your faith is waning or dissipating compared to being a part of a local community. Just because of the consistency. Yeah. And so it's like on a weekly basis, an opportunity to learn, opportunity to grow. we really encourage people like have a church home, Serve, be a part of contributing to that local community and to that local church. It's opportunities for you and I to grow in leadership or opportunities that

We may or may not get in other settings, whether that's at work, whether that's in family dynamics. And so there's so much that can happen for the good. And yeah, because there's people, we're gonna have to navigate some discouraging or some difficult moments. And that's okay. Yeah. It doesn't mean that the local church doesn't still bring value in our lives. I had this moment when we were at that church in LA and I was an executive pastor. It was a large church.

And so I had the privilege and the opportunity of baptizing, probably hundreds of people over the time period. And I remember this person coming up and I baptized them like X years ago. And they were so excited and I didn't recognize them. Like I had no idea. But that moment was still so meaningful for them. And I thought about putting myself in their shoes, Where are there times where I have a big expectation that somebody else remembers a moment for me?

And maybe they don't, but it doesn't mean that there was any maliciousness in their heart. Yeah. It might just be like, hey, pastors of bigger churches interact and encourage and add value potentially to hundreds or thousands of people's lives. It doesn't make that one person less important. Yeah. And the bigger picture is like we're part of a local church, not to follow a man or a woman, but to follow God. Yeah. To live out our life and be like, all right, God, you have in you have invited.

and encouraged me to not forsake the gathering together. And so I'm doing this out of faith and out of obedience. And I believe that God will honor that and kind of guide us through those processes.

Sarah-Gayle (15:20)
we don't know all the answers, It's just focusing on well, what do we know? Yeah. And let's try to move forward on that. You know, when we look at Acts, we see the people of God gathering and they're helping, they're sharing resources. And that's kind of the idea. When we we're connected to a local church, it does, like Chad said, it sharpens us, it challenges us to rub shoulders with other people, to have to deal with ourselves, and then also to learn how to interact with others. And there's

couple of phrases that we hear pretty often and one is you know I'm spiritual not religious and so we kind of already address that where if we're saying that a lot of times we've been hurt with the religious but we see in scripture that the Bible talks about the religious God's not religious either but he is emphasizing the importance of gathering together and there's also a protection and a covering there because what we just talked about prayer.

If you don't have a community of believers, and a lot of couples we talk to don't. But then we find out, yeah, they're not connected to a church because they're spiritual, not religious. Or because they have a personal relationship with God. But then we go on, and there's no condemnation here. There's no condemnation in Christ. It's just navigating the tension of we want to be spiritually connected to our spouse. We want all God has for us.

But are we doing the things that lead to that? Right. So a lot of times it's like, I have a personal relationship with God. But then when we ask a few more questions, The couples, don't read the word. So okay, you have a personal relationship with God, but the very person that you are wanting to grow in relationship with, you don't know because we haven't read what he says in his word. And many of us are not talking to him. So these are just opportunities for us to grow in the areas that we're

saying are important to us so that we can experience all that God has for us.

Chad (17:11)
Yeah, when you were sharing that element of the spiritual and the religious, because I hear that a lot as well. I just want to encourage and challenge people like God is relational. Yeah. And so if I think about that commandment love God and love people, the local church gives us the most consistent opportunity to love God and love people. And so if we're relational, like this is one of the most impactful places that we can be, whether that's we're a greeter.

And we're using our smile and our warmth at the front door. Yeah. Whether we're an usher or whether we have creative gifting or talents or different dynamics, it allows us to love God and love people in a consistent way. Yeah. And I think the other thing is, is it also provides accountability. And sometimes in the seasons that I'm maybe trying to avoid accountability, might actually be the seasons that I need accountability the most. Yeah. Because I may default to my own comfort. And say, well, I don't want to be there because they told me what to do and I don't like.

It's like, well, that may be God trying to use another person to get me back in alignment with what God is trying to do.

so recapping and just creating some action items. The first action item is related to prayer. And so I want you to commit to praying together a regular rhythm. We'll have a prayer guide attached in the episode notes so you can use that as a tool and to support you. And then the second thing is engaging in a local church community. And so all I want you to do is take a baby step from wherever you are.

Maybe you haven't been to church or you haven't been to church consistently. A next step for you might just be: let's pick a local church to go to this Sunday. Maybe you're somebody who has a local church, but you're kind of half in, half out. Commit to consistency. Go every Sunday for a consistent basis. Maybe you're somebody who goes consistently, but you're kind of on the fringe. Serve. Join a team. Your gifts and your talents make the community better. And so the church is better when you are a partner.

of it. So whatever that is, take that next step to continue to grow in your faith and grow in your spiritual connection with your spouse.

Sarah-Gayle (19:11)
Yes, we are so excited for you. These areas produce freedom. These areas produce connection in your marriage and also with others. And so we are cheering you on.